On Being Mean-Spirited

Obama's appearance on Fox News today is predictably giving the blogosphere fits. Personally, I don't really care. Fox News isn't going away. Anyone who thinks so is kidding themselves.

Nevertheless, we are seeing the typical bile from the HRC crowd. Exhibit one is Jerome Armstrong's typically bitter response to it. As always, his guiding principle is based on cynicism. "See. Your candidate panders just as much as ours does."

As I see it, there are about two lines of attack on Obama from HRC supporters.

First, and most recently, there has been the argument that Hillary is more electable than Obama. This is comical to me. Only six months ago, we were all afraid that if McCain ran against Hillary, he would kill her in the General Election. Now suddenly, HRC supporters are convinced that Hillary is going to pull all those white working class swing voters--all six of them--away from from McCain. Aside from the fact that the white working class has been voting GOP since Reagan, Hillary is going to bring over all these independent swing voters. The problem with this analysis is that in primary after primary, Hillary wins the democratic base, while Obama wins independents. So the obvious assumption would be that these base voters will stay with the party if Obama is the nominee, while Obama's independents will almost certainly be more likely to shift to McCain or sit out the election. But even granting all this is not somehow the case, Clinton would at best be only marginally more electable than Obama is the best case scenario, but that's before the current democratic coalition is torn to pieces by the superdelagates' decision to hand the nomination to the pledged delegate loser, who will almost certainly be Clinton. Black voters would desert the party en masse, while the growing growing democratic trend among young voters would be harmed for the foreseeable future. Considering the uproar that would ensue, how can anyone think Clinton would be more electable come labor day after the devastation of a full blown convention war which is her only path to victory?

But I don't think that's the point for Clinton people. I think there is a deep cynicism that pervades their worldview. They think Obama is either a charlatan or a unrealistic idealist. They think think his supporters are just as unrealistic and dreamy. They support Clinton--a known and unrepentant panderer (Iraq War supporter--hello?)--because they think of themselves as hard nosed realists, who know that the only way to get anything done in Washington is by duking it out with the GOP.

Now this is a very strange line of reasoning to me--particularly for Clinton, who in her militant phase was an abject failure, but who when she went to the Senate, engaged in all sorts of the nasty bi-partisanship she and her supporters claim Obama is so unrealistic for talking about and supporting. Even more strangely, she actually got quite a bit accomplished this way. So the lines are drawn essentially like this: Obama wants to win by changing our political discourse for the better. Clinton thinks you have to embrace it in all its ugliness and winning at it. Call it what you want, but its not very hopeful or idealistic. Its in fact very, very cynical.

And all of this contributes to their mean-spiritedness. Political cynicism. Hopelessness. Bitterness over past political wars. Not to mention a shrewd political calculation that the only way their candidate wins is if they can collectively batter their opponent into unelectability. Its a strange strategy to embrace, since it is certainly doing serious damage to the party in the fall, but nevertheless there it is. Battlelines have been drawn. Obama must lose even if it costs us the presidency in the fall.

Do I really believe Obama is this world historic leader HRC supporters claim we Obama supporters believe him to be? To tell the truth, I don't really care. That's never been what this was about. What I do think what Obama can do is convey the values of people of the left in a way very few people have been able to do up to this point. Democrats have won the policy arguments in America, but lost the battle for the hearts of America. We've failed to explain why a liberal culture of openness and responsiveness is better than the conservative/fascist culture offered by the GOP. I think Obama supporters understand this--its what they have in mind when they embrace Obama's calls for hope and change and participatory democracy.

So to Hillary supporters here's the point. Your support for this divisive candidate and her arch-cynic of a husband is doing serious damage to the Democratic Party and can only end badly. Its time to drop the cynicism and embrace a hope for a better time when our values predominate the political discourse, rather than those of prejudice and anger and cynicism which the Fascists of the right have won with for so long.

nlnwjiir



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On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

Well, looks like this party unity thing is going really well.  Democrats bitterly battling it out and McSame gets away unscathed.  Yay for us.


This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!
by venavena on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:22:02 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (2.00 / 1)

Wow. Excellently put. I don't think I could have said it better.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:22:18 PM EST

Their candidate has already lost. (1.00 / 2)

Bitterness is all they have left to cling to.


by dystopianfuturetoday on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:28:27 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

I have more respect for Bill Clinton today than I have had in the past.


by Liberty on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:30:20 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (2.00 / 3)

"typical bile from the HRC crowd"
"a deep cynicism that pervades their worldview."
"They support Clinton--a known and unrepentant panderer"
"Clinton, who in her militant phase was an abject failure"
"Clinton thinks you have to embrace [political discourse] in all its ugliness"
"Your support for this divisive candidate and her arch-cynic of a husband is doing serious damage"

The word for this diary is "projection".


by souvarine on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:36:13 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (2.00 / 0)

Being MEAN SPIRITED: I thought you talking about Obama and Rev Wright's GDM America; and when Obama said "PEOPLE in Small town clings to their Guns and religion because they are Bitter"

TALKING ABOUT MEAN... THAT is really mean coming from the mouth of ORDAINED Pastor and Elected Senator!

Obama people ar mean because they want to shove their worthless candidate to become the President; that's pretty mean!

Anyway, you are entitled to your own your opinion!


by SHIBAM8P on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:51:51 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

You again with your illiterate ravings.. .. yawn....


by interestedbystander on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (1.00 / 1)

Summed it up very well.

Hopefully democrats will take back the White House despite the hard work for McCain done  by Hillary and her supporters.


by wrb on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:12:52 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

Hoping for a democratic White House is now troll worthy?

Isn't that a bit mean spirited? :-)

I was specifically thinking of this, which I had just read:

"In fact, if the GOP has a large Bronze medal of distinction, we should cast one at once and gleefully award it to Mrs. Clinton for her meritorious service to our cause. For seldom has the generic environment looked so bad for Republicans. November will still be difficult and much is now uncertain, but is does appear that a perfect storm could be brewing. First, the nomination of John McCain, a different kind of Republican in a year where only such independence can survive. Second, a long and damaging Democratic primary pitting one vital part of its base in deadly combat against another and continuing that fight long beyond a sensible conclusion. Mrs. Clinton's hand alone is on this throttle of Democratic fratricide and she appears to be accelerating the engine of Democrat destruction rather than easing it back."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TW SFP/2008/04/richelieu_the_perfect_storm. asp


by wrb on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (2.00 / 1)

But haven't exit polls shown that more Hillary voters would switch to McCain than Obama voters.

Obama does best with very liberal people like me, AAs and upscale whites. These groups are already Democratic mostly.

Hillary is doing well with the blue collar Democrats, the swing voters. She also does a lot better with hispanics.

Its already been pointed out that Obama's coalition is similar to McGovern's, and Hillary's is more like her husband's.

A few months ago, Obama supporters pointed towards the polls and said Obama was more electable. Hillary supporters like me said that it was because Obama hadn't been attacked like Hillary had, he wasn't vetted. A few scandals later and now Hillary does better in the polls, but many Obama supporters are still stuck in a time warp.

At the moment Hillary is more electable, that could change though.


by liberalj on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:45:06 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

All those insults in one diary towards HRC supporters, while condeming "being mean spirited". An interesting way to prove your point.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:02:13 PM EST

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

see comment of your troll rating above


by wrb on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Being Mean-Spirited (none / 0)

Does anyone else see the irony in filling a diary against "being mean-spirited" with mean-spirited remarks toward Hillary supporters?

Kind of like the recent NY Times editorial, devoted to petty name-calling, character destruction, and baseless accusations, all in the name of putting an end to negative attacks.

What a mindjob.

I support Hillary because I think she is the best-qualified, and has the right ideas on our economy and on healthcare.  I have seen several examples now of Barack's giving a reactionary, ideological response to economic issues (ie, double capital gains tax in the name of fairness) that convince me that my choice is correct.  I also am one of those annoying non-Democrats that thinks universal healthcare is a human right and one of the most important domestic causes we can take up.

I do also happen to think that she has a stronger chance of winning in the general election.  I likewise think that Barack Obama is capable of winning in November, but I consider his chances significantly less.  I think he has managed damage control during the primary largely because of a fawning press and the fact that his opponent is handcuffed.

However, as addicted as I am to speculation and prediction, I have said many times that I think we do everyone a disservice when we reduce this to a horse race.  So I support Hillary first and foremost because I think she is the best qualified for this job and because I think she has more nuanced positions and a more progressive mindset.

In other words, I disprove your thesis.


Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08
by bobbank on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:23:13 PM EST


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